onepiecefandomcom-20200222-history
Talk:Monkey D. Luffy
Article Grading Information: Grading history (please do not edit): *The article was assessed and graded B on 02/02/07 by Angel Emfrbl. Reason: The article is missing many of the important and needed references. Format I just (October 15, 2006) changed the entire format to something I suggested on Talk:Main Page. If enough people like this, I may apply this format to all of the characters, and even to the Wikipedia pages. The reason there is a separate statistics section instead of using the table is that, according to some editors, the table makes the page look too cramped, since the pages here are thinner than the ones on Wikipedia. Sigmasonic X 22:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC) Storyline I'm concerned with there being too much information on Arlong Park all of a sudden. We should only be concerned with Luffy's part and much of what is being written will be covered in the chapters of that arc. Please that huge lump of text is completely unreferenced. One-Winged Hawk 10:00, 28 November 2007 (UTC) :Agreed. Though it should be there, it should be summarized a bit so that it doesn't take up too much space. Reference is also an issue here. Maybe I'll try to research and summarize that part if I get the chance. In any case, it was kinda good that some people were helping out and fill that part. Not the best attempt, but a good attempt nonetheless. Mugiwara Franky 10:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC) ::I'll agree with you on everything you said. I'm behind on chapters, AP is my next bit. I want to finish the ones concerning Robin's past first and few odd ones. But I'll skip the odd ones and go onto AP as soon as Robin's are done. One-Winged Hawk 12:48, 28 November 2007 (UTC) :::Looks better already. One-Winged Hawk 11:53, 1 December 2007 (UTC) Bounty I'm really hoping that the Stawhats bountys would be raised becasue Chopper's 50 is not much and the kid guy beat him by 15,000,000 just for mass killing thats unfair--leira77 02:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC) :Too bad this isn't a forum, I would love to go into a discussion on that. Unfortunatly, we're not so I'm going to have to ask you to stop there. One-Winged Hawk 18:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC) ::Why can't we discuss on the discussion page? :::The discussion page is for the page not the subject. One-Winged Hawk 20:59, 9 June 2008 (UTC) Ya and either way probably at the end of this his bounty will probably double because he infiltrated impel down and will probably save ace and leave safely i cant wait Bounties do not work that way/ and this isn't a forum Scar This is why luffy has a scar in his face, can someone Add this information? http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/1/05/ :It should be on the page. Take note, you can add it yourself if you want, you can do that. I'll check its written down quickly right now to save you having to do it this time though. One-Winged Hawk 17:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC) ::Double check, scar is mentioned in "appearance" and how he got it in "history". One-Winged Hawk 18:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC) Luffy x Nami Someone should make a list of moments between Luffy and Nami. I have theories on why any other pairings with Nami won't work. For example: Sanji x Nami >XP Sanji often flirts in his many attempts to woo Nami but she tends to reject them compared to Robin who tends to ignore them. See if any of you can list the number of moments between Luffy and Nami compared to the other members. Rainbowman 29 June 2008 WOW, um...that probably isnt the case man. I mean, most of those "moments" are probably from the Arlong Arc, and in that case meant as friendly moments. Besides, it's an anime, not much going on there... You forgot to sign your post. Other than that you may have a point there. Rainbowman 19 August 2008 Um...well, there aren't really any official pairings yet. So, anyways, I don't think it'd be fair to single out on any one pairing just yet. SailorShiningLight 23:47, 17 September 2008 (UTC) PSSHH, No pairing should be noted in any page but mythbusters and community cafe. If you're looking for it you'll find evidence and moments for any pairing you want, I bet I could find more moments in support of Luffy x Zoro then Luffy x Nami, but both of us would deny many of the moments the other brings up. The only canon pairing is Everybody x Adventure according to Oda anyways, also Boa having a one-sided love for Luffy. Jeshi 12:54AM August 6th 2009 (GMT -5) Luffy's Birthdate We all know that Luffy's birthday is on May 5th and that in Japan it's known as Children's Day. But did you know that there is a holiday in mexico on that day called: Cinco de Mayo"? And so I ask: Does anyone know why there are different holidays in those seperate regions on the same day? Rainbowman 8 July 2008 Hi. :) It's true that both of the holidays fall on the same date, but it doesn't look like Oda meant for the date to be that significant on purpose. It's only coincidential that Cinco de Mayo and Kodomo no Hi fall on the same day; Mexican forces were able to defeat an attack by the French army on the 5th of May of a certain year, and Kodomo no Hi actually used to go by the lunar calendar's 5th month but they sync-ed it to the Gregorian calendar since it's more widely used. There's also a bit of Japanese wordplay concerning the way the date may have been chosen. All of this was information taken from Wikipedia (lol~)...but that's basically the jist. With so many different cultures in the world and only 365 days on the calendar, it makes sense that a certain day in one country might celebrate something else in another. ;3 Let's just say Luffy's really lucky `-` Sephirona 20:36, 8 July 2008 (UTC) length Is it really necessary that this article take longer to read than the entire manga? I think some summarization of events is in order. - 16:29, 19 July 2008 (UTC) :In truth we don't need the story at all since it takes away attention from the chapters. If we did things properly, we need only reference the chapters linked to info on Luffy from this page and back. This page would be about Luffy only and the chapters would be on their own pages. If anything, a brief description is all we need at the most. :This is another reason why I gave up on writing manga chapters - the story is being told everywhere but on those pages. Plus, at this rate we'll have contradictions on the character pages to the chapter pages. Seriously, I have broad band and a high speed one at that and this page screams at me whenever I load it. Its being to take the mick. I've said before that there is just too much retelling of the story. :If this would be too much of a problem then would everyone just pitch in in the chapters and cut the rest of the plot retelling out of this page. --One-Winged Hawk 17:37, 19 July 2008 (UTC) ::Apparently people would rather have every single bit of information in this page and make it too long to read. :/ - 21:01, 19 July 2008 (UTC) While it maybe long and be better suited to the chapter pages, this is what is to expected from a character page of any wikia. A good example of this happening outside the One Piece wikia would be Luke Skywalker's article on Wookiepedia. Luke's article is long and carries alot of summary that would be suited else where but it apparently works. Now moving the info of a character's history to chapter pages maybe helpful to a page but it may not be helpful to a reader I believe. Saying go to this chapter page and then to this page, might be a strain on a reader and their computer especially if they just want to know about the single character. Having at least one page of a single character's history, might help lessen the trouble. Luffy's history here is indeed long and has alot of stuff not about him. The East Blue Saga and Thriller Bark from me myself and alot from other editors. What is needed here is a cleanup. Summarize certain parts and erase irrelevant stuff. With abit of effort and some patience, it can be good. It maybe long but it would be sufficient.Mugiwara Franky 21:29, 19 July 2008 (UTC) :Star Wars has the distinct difference of being made up of many different books and movies and ideas of canon, etc. One Piece is just a manga (and an anime which is basically the same plus a few filler arcs). Star Wars has many different places to draw information from, and putting it all together like that is convenient for people. What's going on here is a massive summary of the entire manga. This is useful to almost no one because A) People who have already read the manga don't need to know the entire plot, B) people who haven't will just read the manga, not this. This much information is overwhelming to people and of very little use. :What should be on a character page, is information regarding the character, such a personality, attacks, highly important plot points, and things that are not obvious simply from reading the manga ("fun facts", etc.) :What good does a plot summary so huge that it apparently causes strain on some browsers do anyone? Who needs to know THAT much about Luffy? I think if somebody is that interested, it would hardly be a strain on them to go to a page specifically for such a thing. :Not to mention that so much information is repeated on every single character page. The picture of Merry's funeral appears on the page of almost every Straw Hat, but not the page for Merry herself. What. - 22:13, 19 July 2008 (UTC) ::Also, here's a little perspective on how overwhelming this article is. I put it into a word counter, from the title down to the categories. 22,443 words total. Now here's something from wikipedia: Types of prose fiction: * Flash fiction: A work of fewer than 2,000 words. (1,000 by some definitions) (around 5 pages) * Short story: A work of at least 2,000 words but under 7,500 words. (5-25 pages) * Novelette: A work of at least 7,500 words but under 17,500 words. (25-60 pages) * Novella: A work of at least 17,500 words but under 50,000 words. (60-170 pages) * Novel: A work of 50,000 words or more. (about 170+ pages) * Epic: A work of 200,000 words or more. (about 680+ pages) ::Congratulations, you have written a Novella about Luffy. That's not just big, that is absurd. - 01:49, 20 July 2008 (UTC) :::Aside from Luke's, here's http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Son_Goku Goku's and one of Naruto's. Both are similar to Luffy's and both are generally accepted by their wikias. They can't be accepted in wikipedia but they're accepted in their respective wikias. This is a wikia that is centric to One Piece so some more details is expected. An extended history section is a norm in any wikia about fictional characters. :::A strain on some browsers because of one page is expected from wikia pages, but do you actually want people go through 507 or more pages just to learn about Luffy's history. It's a hassle, people might as well just read the manga itself instead of coming to this wikia if that is the case. I mean why bother with coming to a site that supposed to detail stuff when it tells you to go find the details yourself rather than show it. :::Repetition of history is expected from characters with shared history. A sentence that states "The Straw Hat crew face enemy A together" in every Straw Hat page can be accepted as the sentence includes the character themselves. I mean doesn't saying that include Luffy. The sentence is basically about Luffy and the rest grouped together. It's pretty similar to a sentence that goes "Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, and Brook face enemy A together". :::Also you know, this entire argument about nuking every characters' history section really shouldn't be in Luffy's talk page and be discussed by three people. Considering it is a massive site overhaul, it should be in a talk page that the rest of community can participate in. There are hundreds of characters who follow this format, and a few people blowing all this away would upset the balance. :::Also Mr. Anon, while you have put up good points, I find it funny that you want to make a major change when you're a relative new comer as seen in your contributions. You're pretty daring to want to change the entire structure of site as part of your initial editing. We don't know whether this is truly in good faith or disruptive as you haven't given anything else to this site other than a few edits and an argument concerning the whole site. You're not even logged in for crying out loud, you might be a group of pranksters for all we know. New comers are welcome but those who come in and upset a community's standards as if they're already high and mighty without gaining the trust of others, are just bad even if they have good intentions. :::So to sum it up. This is a Wikia not Wikipedia. Long details are expected and is a norm. The rest of the community should know of this since it concerns everyone. And lastly, the words of new comer and an anon can make some points, but they can't be fully trusted yet.Mugiwara Franky 06:00, 20 July 2008 (UTC) ::::My concern has always been that writting long essays on a storyline like on this page distracts from writing the chapters. You also may end up with conflicts of info, for example, Luffy's page may say Crocdile recieved a kick to the shins (this is made up for the sake of explaination reasons) while the chapter page concerned may say he was hit in the chest. I'm happy with length to a certain degree so long as we don't get stuck into those problems. Right one we've got one of those problems, the chapters really aren't being done, I've yet to see problem no.2 happen. ::::My third and final concern is that rewriting the entire plot can be problematic, especially if its unreferenced, which makes 2/3 things we have going wrong on the pages. While its nice, a summery of events can he a lot more helpful sometimes then retelling the storyline. This are the three points I've been trying to make for ages. I know everyone loves details here, heck I've buffed up the personnelities and such like on just about everyone's character page. But storylines... They've always been a huge concern. We handle everything fine, there are no other problems on this site as far I'm concerned except this one we're discussing. ::::Also MF, though they are new (yeah and they should sign up because they can talk for weeks on end and it would never come to nothing because they are just random IP adress), they raise good points. I said everything they said, like a year and a half ago, and its only now a bunch of random IP adesses speak out it gets touched upon again. I'm partly disgusted here on this... Because after 2 years of being established this sort of discussion shouldn't be taking place and this problem shouldn't be there. We can't argue that our pages have good quality while things like this remain. ::::Look... The easiest way to resolve this is to say Right: so and so - you writ ethe Arlong arc, so and so other you write the Buggy arc, and the other so and so, you do the Laboon arc. Either way... What ever happens, Either do this or get a team whose soul purpose is to edit. Either way, if you need it, I'll advertise on the other sites on the sites behalf. I don't mi nd, I just want to know where we're going with this and how the problem will be adressed. --One-Winged Hawk 11:30, 20 July 2008 (UTC) :::::In response to this: "I find it funny that you want to make a major change when you're a relative new comer as seen here in your contributions. You're pretty daring to want to change the entire structure of site as part of your initial editing. We don't know whether this is truly in good faith or disruptive as you haven't given anything else to this site other than a few edits and an argument concerning the whole site. You're not even logged in for crying out loud, you might be a group of pranksters for all we know." :::::I am a reader. I visit this wiki on occasion usually to find out some obscure bit of information, which this wiki is actually quite useful, and am frequently annoyed in my visits by some of the poor quality on it, such as history pages being massive, or wild speculation being put on pages (I can go looking for a few examples of that if you need). As for the "prankster" accusations, even if I was trolling or whatever, does that stop the fact that what I'm saying is the truth? Pointing out to you that this article exceeds 20,000 words isn't "pranking". I'm not asking you to make this article a size that is readable as a big practical joke. :::::All I am is a reader who would enjoy seeing the quality of this wiki improve. I didn't register because I have no real interest in becoming a regular contributor. I come by when I want to see what the name of random minor character X is. I realize this isn't wikipedia, which is what makes it helpful to me for stuff like that. But you guys really seem to take it in the opposite extreme, trying to stuff anything and everything that could possible be conceived as relevant onto a page. - 15:37, 20 July 2008 (UTC) ::::::If that is the case, then it is good that you expressed your views. However, just because it initially seem like that no one was interested in listening to your views, it doesn't mean you can go deciding things by yourself. Parts of Robin's page have been erased per what you have said and only certain relevant info have been added back. Not everything you erased was placed back, most notably the Zoro parts in Thriller Bark. Luffy's page needs a cleanup but nuking everything doesn't solve anything as that's not the way it should go. Indeed, this site needs improvement but erasing a bunch of stuff and saying it should go somewhere else isn't the right way, especially if you don't plan to write the information in the respective pages that you suggested. This is more wrong considering alot of those pages suggested are empty and need work. ::::::This site needs work and it's good of you to share what you think should be done. However, if you think that something is irrelevant or needs to be improved then it is best to keep it at least keep it in the talk pages especially if it is a major thing. What maybe irrelevant to you maybe really relevant to others. Some parts of Luffy's history beyond his backstory for instance are relevant to certain degree. Don't tell me that him getting his first bounty, him striving against a Shishibukai, him making a major decision that got him in a serious fight with Usopp, him learning abit of his goal of being the Pirate King, aren't relevant to his character. ::::::You explaining things show that you are not indeed a prankster but certain things need to be discussed more than just one or two posts. ::::::Right now, we are planing to try to clean and improve things up as an effect of hearing your points of views. Don't be impatient again like what happened. This site has only a few dedicated editors maintaining things at any given time. We can only do so much.Mugiwara Franky 16:47, 20 July 2008 (UTC) Well,Ive got a problem with this lenght-cause anything bellow ˝Luffy rushed off to Mast Masion, where, as he was also informed by Lola, was the site of a mammoth battle between Oz and Moria against his crew and˝ doesnt show to me-its just a big white block all the way down to the adds. New Babylon 13:44, 23 July 2008 (UTC) :I don't get it. Is it missing the words or something. Doesn't show up on my end even in Sapphire skin. Can you show a picture please.Mugiwara Franky 14:01, 23 July 2008 (UTC) :The article's need in a cleanup anyway so maybe it'll show up when it's all sorted.Mugiwara Franky 14:08, 23 July 2008 (UTC) ::It aint showing the text from that point-actualy the next line is cut in half. Ive a windows 2000 profesional,so I wonder if people could actualy respect that ? New Babylon 20:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC) Haha, this is awesome. Since I was here last you've actually managed to expand the article in your "cleanup". The total wordcount has increased by 15% to 26,004. Good job guys. =] - 09:46, 13 August 2008 (UTC) :Please note that cleanups are not the easiest things to do. There is research, writing, rewording and other stuff. It's difficult if only a few people pitch in and even more so those people can't fix things right away because of stuff, like being sick. It's a long process and can't be fixed the next time that anyone checks up on. It's a very long process. :Also please note, in the course of cleanups, some words will also be added. This is because of two reasons. One because the sentences created to cleanup of things will sometimes have more words that will make sense of things. And two because something else is added. This include new details of what is happening currently in the story among things, and other parts of the page being expanded apart from history.Mugiwara Franky 13:48, 13 August 2008 (UTC) the personality section has become way too long and must be cut short :I believe that a complete overhaul is in order for this page (Rewrite, inclusion of references, remove unnecessary information, etc). An entire play-by-play of the series is NOT necessary in a character article. Seriously, halfway down the article (which would be, what, 30 pages?) and it's only gotten to the Arlong Park Arc. That's simply way too much. At most, this article should summarize Luffy's personality, relationships, history, major battles in the series, and information pertinent to the plot (such as Luffy's family lineage). I'd be willing to edit this article and try to clean it up, but I don't want people to freak out if half the content is removed. Itavita 06:53, 29 May 2009 (UTC)Itavita Paragraphs Basic English; Paragraph every 6 or 7 sentances. Please, of all pages we forget to do this on, this is the most noted by me. Paragraphs make editing easier, pasting pictures in easier and helps a reader read the text. I'm starting to get slightly annoyed that we forget what they are on this page. If we're going to have a page with such excessive amounts of text then please grant just one wish; Keep making paragraphs as we go along! --One-Winged Hawk 07:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC) Habit I realized that luffy has a strange habit when he is under atack, where should I put this habit?--Thenewjericho 05:34, 24 October 2008 (UTC) http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/279/12/ http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/518/04/ :Strange habbits would be personnelity. One-Winged Hawk 10:21, 24 October 2008 (UTC) Tattoos About Luffy's appearance. I didn’t find any info about Luffy’s tattoos. He got one during Alabasta (it’s under his black wristband), and temporary one during Foxy fight. And since Shabondy Archipelago he has have tattoo around his (left?) arm. I’m not 100% sure about facts, but I hope somebody could check it out? :Left arm? Are you mistaking the glass braclet for a tattoo? And the x-mark isn't a tattoo. It was just a mark they put there to help against Mr.2 Bon Kurei. One-Winged Hawk 12:27, 2 November 2008 (UTC) sorry about the recent revert We had a major vandal coming in here and edit the page... No one spotted it and continued editing so the only way to repair it was to do a full revert back to the revision without the vandalism. GUYS Pay attention to vandals! Don't continue to edit when a vandal has done something, revert the edit or we get this sort of mess! One-Winged Hawk 17:00, 17 February 2009 (UTC) Curret Event Ok,I know I missed a lot of things with in the Current Event,I apologize for that,next time,I'll do a better job,to whoever did the Clean up on it,Nice. It looks great. ^^ gohanRULEZ 06:07, 22 May 2009 (UTC) Hat Strap At what point precisely does he get the strap? It should be plainly illustrated on this page. Buh6173 23:00, 22 May 2009 (UTC) Does anyone know the answer to this? Buh6173 00:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC) What Happens When the Monkey's Away... ...67.49.155.28 Will Say. :67.49.155.28 keeps adding what's happening in the villages while Luffy and Sanji are taking Nami up the mountain and at the castle. This article should focus on Luffy. The events away from him is irrelevant here. It should be kept to the Drum Kingdom Arc's page and the pages of the characters involved (Usopp, Vivi, Dalton, and Wapol). ::Kaizoku-Hime 06:54, 20 June 2009 (UTC) :Sorry for the delayed reply, but yes, keep reverting. If this happens again, leave a note on their talk page. If that fails, you coul call it vandalism at a pinch, since its not productive editing. One-Winged Hawk 07:14, 6 August 2009 (UTC) Relationships: Friends Error It would seem after Alabasta, Luffy did become friends with Cobra for his actions. So, then there is an error in the end of the Friends section where it says he has no conections to the World Government. Luffy and Ace Well since the latest chapter revealed that Luffy and Ace are not full brothers,I suggest we change all uses of brother to half-brother. Drunk Samurai 18:25, 18 July 2009 (UTC) :"Half", as you suggest, means that they share one parent. They obviously have different fathers (Roger and Dragon) and since Rouge died giving birth to Ace, it's impossible for her to be Luffy's mother as well. "Step" means that a parent of one married a parent of the other: which is unlikely. So the only term(s) that'll work is "adoptive/adopted". ::Kaizoku-Hime 18:54, 18 July 2009 (UTC) If they're not any form of brothers, the closest they can be is cousins. Subrosian 20:28, 18 July 2009 (UTC) :It's true that in Japan younger cousins often address their older cousins as older brother or older sister. However, when talking about their relationship to other people (Luffy to his crew, Nyon and Hancock; and Ace to Blackbeard and Jinbei), neither Ace nor Luffy say they are cousins. Garp may have simply raised Ace as Luffy's brother. While it is possible that they may be cousins, as any and all "D"s may be related in some way, it's unconfirmed. Until it is, let's just say they're adoptive/adopted brothers. ::Kaizoku-Hime 20:52, 18 July 2009 (UTC) History section too long The history section is waaaaaay too long. Heck, these sections goes into detail to every movement. We should shorten them to the essentials, and if we want to expand on them, we should have a redirect link to that specific arc. Here's an example: For Adventures on the Isle of Women, instead of having all these sub-categories of "Meeting the Snake Princess And Dueling In The Battle Arena" and "Befriending a Shichibukai, and Leaving the Isle of Women", we should shorten it dramatically, and have something like That's where the full details should be. We should do this for all the main characters (i.e. Straw Hat Pirates crew members) history sections). Yatanogarasu 23:03, 18 July 2009 (UTC) :If keep raising this problem myself every so often. The earlier arcs things are nice and short, but the recent ones; newer editors are giving in to tempations too often. History sections also tend to become a little wide, when they should only be dealing with THAT characters input on the storyline. This is also happening here (again). Luffy's history should only be about Luffy. One-Winged Hawk 07:50, 19 July 2009 (UTC) Then let's cut them short. Such as instead of "Luffy used Gomu Gomu no Jet Bazooka on Magellan" and "Luffy jumped away from the Hydra"... let's just say something like "After a brutal fight with Magellan, Luffy was fatally poisoned, and was ordered by Magellan to be imprisoned into Level 5 until he dies". Yatanogarasu 02:55, 19 July 2009 (UTC) trivia and personelity People keep adding to trivia what belongs in personelity. But anyway, what I really want to note is we need someone to rewrite the personelity section. Not ness. removing info, but reorganising it, its about that time again when it needs the attention. Possibly even simplification also since its got very complex there. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 07:50, 4 August 2009 (UTC) They also add things that isn't even a reference to him. Not only on this page. They do it with other characters and its is hard to find them all. I played and beat Vesperia. The hat in it was just a typical straw hat. It would only be a reference if it had said something like "Worn by a pirate". I'm just using that one as an example. Drunk Samurai 09:28, 4 August 2009 (UTC) :Tell me about it, a lot of our trivia we could do with out. I think if this keeps it up, we might have to write a guideline to trivia. We've got a lot of junk info slipping on here. :I spotted on the Sonic the Hedghog wikia a few weeks back they have a whole "comparison list" with a dozen characters like Sonic and Mario and then some simply stupid stuff like Sonic and a character I hardly heard of. Then a week later we had a such list appear on Ace's page of that nature comparing him and Luffy. Nice bit of info, fills up the page; completely useless. Essentially, while a lot of our trivia is nice to have, trivia should just be loose info that doesn't fit anywhere else just is still interesting. It should not be "trivia for the sake of having trivia" as a lot of our trivia is becoming. Examples: :Pointing out Kuma is the only mammal themed shichibukai is nice, but, what help is that info? However saying Luffy's nickname "anchor" Shanks dubbed him is ironic because a "Shank" is part of a ships anchor isn't. :Reason being is one is just having "trivia for the sake of having trivia" while the latter is not, its more towards the educational side of trivia. One-Winged Hawk 07:03, 5 August 2009 (UTC) Two things Okay its long been established the Boa Hancock not mastering Haki comment is a mistranslation so lets keep it off the page. Is it on mythbusters??? I should check. Anyway another thing, please don't write all the character speech on the page. One or two short comments we can get away with, but if we're doing quotations we have a template for quotes; please make use of it. Its rather lazy writing just to write out the quote, plus the characters don't always explain the matter at hand themselves very well (we can often explain better). Also, in the event of trnaslation errors (see first paragraph), quoting from a bad translation is more noticable. One-Winged Hawk 06:52, 5 August 2009 (UTC)